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 Author  Topic: Japanese Aerial Torpedo Doctrine
G R Powell

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Apr 14, 2009 - 6:31pm
I am looking for information on Japanese aerial torpedo doctrine. Specifically, I need some good authoritative sources on what Japanese pilots were taught about such things as proper approach altitude, angle to target, range to target at release, and the like. This relates to research I am doing on the torpedoing of PT 167 by Kates in November of 1943. Thanks for any suggestions.

G R Powell

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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Apr 14, 2009 - 11:02pm
Hey Gary (is that your name?)
I found this on David Dicksons website about the Japanese navy, called "Nihon Kaigun". In it he has a message board called "Tullys Port"
http://propnturret.com/tully/viewforum.php?f=10 and down near the bottom is one labled "Japanese Aerial Doctrine"

On there he has posted formerly classified briefings taken from interviewing captured japanese Aviators, and it explains the US Navy's understanding of Japanese tactics to be used as training. Here is the link.
http://dreadnoughtproject.org/friends/dickson/Japanese%20Aerial%20Tactics%202.pdf
If you scroll to page 20-23 it talks about torpedo attack patterns. I hope this is what you were looking for.

Jerry PT 658 crew Portland OR

Jerry Gilmartin

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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Apr 14, 2009 - 11:24pm
By the way, there is another extremely interesting message subject on that same board titled "MTB Lessons"
http://propnturret.com/tully/viewtopic.php?t=163 It was a captured document that was translated after the war. It talks about thier percieved cautions and opinions of the capabilities and tactics to use against our PT Boats. There are 3 parts and make for a very interesting read! Jerry

On there are links to .pdf files (Adobe Acrobat Reader) The first of the 3 parts mentions the ramming of PT 109 by the way.

Jerry



Jerry Gilmartin

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Apr 15, 2009 - 1:41am
Jerry:

As always thanks for the wonderful information. I had seen this before, but had misplaced the link. In reading this, there should be no doubt as to the effectiveness of the PT Boats during WWII. That the Japnese would need to invent doctorine to combat the PT Boats, tells how much they really feared these boats. It is also pretty amazing on how much they knew about the boats, and how they operated and attacked, considering how much confusing was going on while under attack. It also shows the weakness of the PT Boats including Air attack, and the wakes they produced, which could be seen for a long distance.


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G R Powell

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Apr 15, 2009 - 6:34am
Jerry,

My name is actually Jerry too, but to avoid confusion on this board I have gone by G R. Thanks very much for your posting.

This message board is such an amazing resource. I ask for authoritative sources on Japanese aerial torpedo doctrine in November of 1943, and within minutes a member directs me to a source. And it is not just any source -- it is a translation of a Japanese Navy secret publication on aerial torpedo tactics (that's pretty authorititative, Jerry!), AND it's dated November 5, 1943 (the very day of the torpedo attack on PT 167). Couldn't you find anything closer to what I wanted, Jerry???

The Tully's Port web page looks to be the source of sources on the Japanese Navy. I had seen the translation there of the Japanese MTB document, but not the aerial torpedo publication.

Thanks very much for the source. It looks like just the thing.

G R Powell

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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Apr 15, 2009 - 1:02pm
Hi GR (Jerry)
I appreciate your efforts. No problem and glad to have helped. I think that whatever I can do to help spread the accurate history of PT Boats is answering some inner desire I must have. It felt good to be able to help. I was pretty amazed that this stuff was even out there! I think that their account of ramming the PT-109 and then suggesting using that method in the future as a standard operating procedure is pretty eye opening.

One thing I am confused about, was PT 171 nearby when the PT167 was struck by the torpedo? It seems like I have seen accounts in that Time Magazine article saying they both were, but I am pretty sure it was either one or the other, and not both. Now I am unsure which was which? Was PT 171 in the genral vicinity when the 167 was hit? Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin

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G R Powell

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Apr 15, 2009 - 6:03pm
Jerry,

PT 171 was not part of the convoy that was attacked by the Kates. You may be thinking of the FIRST time PT 167 was torpedoed (indirectly at least). Both the 167 and the 171 were riding aboard the Stanvac Manila when the I-17 submarine torpedoed her.

I have attached below the very interesting Time Magazine article you mentioned. It is based upon interviews of the 167 crew, probably including Ted Berlin, very soon after the incident occurred. The 167 was torpedoed on November 5, 1943 and this story appeared in Time Magazine on November 22, 1943. In that respect this is an important source because memories were still very fresh. The war correspondent reporting was William H. Chickering. He landed on Bougainville with our invasion troops (They made you proud to be an American, he wrote). He must have interviewed the 167 crew very soon after they got back to Bougainville after the torpedoing (they returned at midnight on the 5th) because we know the 167 showed up at Rendova on the 6th.





G R Powell

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