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 Author  Topic: PT 174 Film Footage
G R Powell

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Mar 14, 2009 - 10:29am
Below are several photos of PT 174. The captions suggest these are offical US Navy photos taken in January of 1944. These photos show the 40mm on the foredeck. Also, note the covers on the 50 caliber guns. It looks like they are leftover from when the 174 was zebra striped. She had apparently recently been painted green when these photos were taken.







It appears to me that these still photos may have actually been frames from film footage of this boat. The following YouTube video contains a short film clip of what appears to me to be the same boat. Is this actual movie footage of PT 174? It would have been taken from the other boat shown in the foreground of the third photo. If so, where can one find the entire film?

The relevant clip is found at about the 1:34 mark in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aewVphp5WV8&NR=1



G R Powell

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BobPic

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Mar 14, 2009 - 12:50pm
G.R.: This photo puzzles me. I agree it appears to have been taken after the stripes had been repainted which would correspond with the published date and place. We heard of the experiment to move the 40mm to the foredeck, altho I never saw it. I would have sworn that configuration was tried early on, at Tulagi or New Guinea. They removed the foredeck guns AND the forward torpedoes to balance the boat. The bow still was too heavy and slowed the boat significantly, probably the reason it never was adopted. These pictures show all four torpedoes and a 20mm gun on the fantail. I can't reconsile that setup. Maybe someone else with a better memory will comment. 'tis a puzzlement.


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  Wayne Traxel

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Wayne Traxel   Send Email To Wayne Traxel Posted on: Mar 14, 2009 - 5:23pm
While researching PT-174 in the confiruration shown in your pictures for a possible model that I had intended to build, I obtained a 174 crew list from PT Boats Inc. and wrote to the men on the list. to my surprise all of the guys on the list responded, however they were either on the boat before the 40 mm mount was installed on the bow in September 1943 or after 40 was moved aft and replaced with a 37mm re fitted on the bow in June of 1944.

Your pictures show PT-174's appearence in January 1944. As for how the 174 handled with this bow mounted Bofors I never found out. I did view an action report dated March 1944 submitted by an Officer named Whitney who gave the mount high marks against the barge traffic he encountered while on 174.

The 30 second film clip of 174 was featured the History Channels, Famous Raids series, several years ago. Will have to check out the U tube version of this clip.

Wayne Traxel

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G R Powell

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Mar 14, 2009 - 8:10pm
Wayne & Bob,

Here is a photo from Ted Walther's photobucket album. It purports to be the 174 boat in December of 1942. This photo shows the 40 mounted on the bow, suggesting it was placed there by Elco. I don't know whether the date is correct or not. Bob remembers that the 40 was placed on the boat after it got to the Pacific. Apparently,the information gathered from 174 crew members by Wayne supports that.



Wayne, I would like to exchange some information with you about PT 174. Please email me at: Gerald_Powell@baylor.edu



G R Powell

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Mar 14, 2009 - 8:47pm
Guys;
I have read and seen all kinds of info on this mount. The date on the above photo is correct, Dec 1942, and the original mount was mounted by ELCO. However, I have also read this mount was removed sometime prior to shipment on the Stanvac Manila, and because of 174's strengthened bow a 40mm was re installed upon arrival at Tulagi. maybe an Army model(I think there was a diffenence? am I right Wayne??) as on PT 59???? This is uinderstandable since they did this even with torpedo tubes in the early days. Looking back on it though, I am sure in those early days at Rendova and Green Island, LT. Russell Rome's crew would have enjoyed the ammo capacity of the original shielding that ELCO installed.
Take care,
TED


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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Mar 15, 2009 - 7:16pm
I've seen a photo somewhere of the 174 with the originally-mounted bow 40mm, complete with the elaborate and unique "cow-catcher" shield around the gun. The boat wasn't zebra-striped, and I believe the photo was taken in the States...

Didn't one of our regular posters -- "muddyfields," maybe -- modify the 1/35th scale Italeri 80' Elco model kit as the 174, with the bow-mounted 40mm and "cow-catcher" shield?


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G R Powell

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Mar 15, 2009 - 7:50pm
Drew,

Maybe this is the photo you were thinking of.



The photo, from Victor Chun's book, is not dated. It does have the shield, but no zebra stripes, and no torpedo tubes. This photo must have been taken stateside because in the photo that Ted dated as December 1942 the boat is striped and does have the shield. The 174 didn't arrive in the Pacific until 1943. Notice the first photo I posted shows her in January 1944 with no shield, no stripes, and no torpedo tubes.

Muddyfields did do a beautiful model of the 174 in dry dock getting some green stripes. That model has shield, stripes and tubes.

G R Powell

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Mar 15, 2009 - 9:03pm
This photo was taken stateside as you can see an Elco Employee (in white coveralls) near the engine room hatch.


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TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Mar 16, 2009 - 9:14am
RON 10 was commissioned on 9 Dec 1942.I looked up174's major dates and the above photo had to be taken around her launch date of 23 Dec 1942. PT 174 was placed in service on 6 Jan 1943, so the zebra stripes were either painted the last week in Dec 1942 or very soon after the placed in service date. However, I have read that the Adapter pattern was applied by ELCO. As most know, being 60 years ago, The only way to know for sure is if we ask a RON 10 member who was a plankowner. If you read the back of At Close Quarters or Al Ross' book Allied Coastal Forces at Commissioning the only boats that were ready was PT 163 and PT 164. The remaining RON 10 boats were recieved over the next 4 weeks.
Take care,
TED


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  Wayne Traxel

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Wayne Traxel   Send Email To Wayne Traxel Posted on: Mar 16, 2009 - 1:33pm
A partial PT-174 log. (National Archives)

1/6/1943: PT 174 arrived from Elco and was placed in service by order of the Commander, MTBRON 10. Commanding officer was Ensign Paul Burgess Fay, Jr.

2/1/1943: At Elco, work started on boat to remove 40mm gun.

2/8/1943: Lt (j.g.) Phillip A. Potter relieved Ensign Fay of command of PT 174.

Spring, 1943: Training in Panama.

5/24/1943: At 1410, while PT 174 was resting on cradle aboard USS Stanvac Manila, ship was torpedoed approximately 85 miles from coast of Noumea, New Caledonia. The pelican hooks were broken and all watertight doors were dogged down before the crew left the ship. 0700: PT 174 floated free from the SS Stanvac Manila, damaging the hull, wheels and shafts. 0710: boat was underway to pick up survivors of the ship. 1500: taken in tow by USS Prebble (sp?) for towing to Noumea, New Caledonia.

5/28/1943: Towed by Navy power barge to USS Argonne (AG 31) for repairs.

6/11-18/1943: Moored alongside USS Prometheus; radar installed, adjusted, and inspected.

8/1-2/1943: Made visual contact with enemy destroyers west of Makuti Island, fired four torpedoes and returned to base.

9/10/1943: Boat went into drydock at Tulagi.

9/11-21/1943: PT 174 received new engines and installed 40mm gun.

(Deck Logs end November 1943)


First Elco Factory Bofors mount on PT-174, removed in February 1943. A second 40mm and Army trailer mount was installed at Tulagi in mid-September 1943.


As Frank mentioned, this is a Elco photo of PT-174 with 1st Bofors mount.

Zebra Camo of 174 and 1st 40 mm mount.

Hope this is helpful.



Wayne Traxel

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