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 Author  Topic: Turret and Twin .50 Mount Colors
Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Jan 2, 2009 - 11:47pm
I'm trying to finish modeling the turrets for an early 80' Elco but I'm stuck on the colors. I have several color photos of earlier boats that show the mount finish a light blue gray but photos of later boats appear darker. I'd like to know what the factory-fresh colors were as well as if they were later painted to match the color scheme of the boat. Any help with the colors of the following would be greatly appreciated:

ammo cans
depression rails
concentric ring parts/pedestal support tubes
overall mount color
upper ammo guide rollers, a similar mount on a Vietnam era PBR shows them as a reddish orange
were bolts and springs generally a parkerized finish?

Here's what I have so far, please feel free to point out any details I left out or screwed up no matter how small:


Note that the pedestal and pedestal support tube brace/lower ammo guide are early designs, and that the ammo box cover hooks are found on later boats. The turret lock also changed from one with a round knob on the handle end to what looks liked a looped handle. If you have any good closeups of the locks and/or ammo can holddowns I'd appreciate a copy since what I show now is mostly guesswork.

I did manage to make out the text on the upper ammo guide red tags:
BELT MUST BE FED INTO GUN
DOUBLE END OF LINK FIRST

Thanks in advance,
Jeff



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BobPic

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jan 3, 2009 - 9:42am
Loks like you are doing a superb job with the turrets. My memory of such
details you asked about is weak, but I offer some comments.
ammo cans : Ours were usually painted green. Sometimes we had the luxury of having base personnel build our 50cal belts. We painted our own cans to identify them as PT167. I think later cans were galvanized or Parkerized.
I don't remember details of:
depression rails
concentric ring parts/pedestal support tubes
overall mount color
upper ammo guide rollers, I'm pretty sure they were brass. We kept them well greased
were bolts and springs generally a parkerized finish? I think bolts were galvanized. Remember PTs were built by wood craftsmen because metal was scarce. I suspect there was no standard for such things as bolts and they used whatever was available. This likely doesn't help a bit, but it is interesting to try to remember such trival. Good Luck, Bob



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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Jan 3, 2009 - 10:09am
Awesome work as usual. Those are great drawings!

The 103 class boats were initially painted Dark Gray (5-D) from the deck up. Later they were painted completely in 5-D upon deployment which was known as Measure 1. So if you want it as it came off the assembly line 5-D is your color.

The black and white photos I have don't yield much information except I would say the feeds look metalic and possibly unpainted. They look like weathered aluminum but who knows.

The following photos may yield a clue but I have no idea where these came from. I believe these were sold on ebay a while back. But they are clearly painted.

Good luck!










David Waples

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Jan 3, 2009 - 11:28am
Dave, I wanted to get this straight as I am doing PT 103 project including the Crane from Elco. I have three paints for the boat, recommended by T. G. Connelly. The hull itself is painted No. #5 standard Navy Gray, and the deck and superstructures were 5-D Dark gray. Is this correct? I also have 65A Antifouling Red for the water line. I never used these paints before, but Tim recommended them (White Ensign Models), so if he said it, they must be very good. What color were the torpedo tubes done up in. Thanks for your help..........


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Jan 3, 2009 - 11:56am
Thanks guys, the darker shade and brass rollers sound good to me.



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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Jan 3, 2009 - 12:23pm
By the way David, those were some of my favorite reference images for the mount. They really show the construction well.

One thing I think about when looking at turret images is that the gunners were so exposed, unprotected, and I imagine a prime target for enemy pilots? What was an enemy pilots plan of attack against a PT most likely to be?



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BobPic

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jan 3, 2009 - 1:54pm
Hi Jeff, I have some experiences with Jap aircraft attacks. The 167 boat was torn up more than once. I'm sure you know there were no protected areas on a wooden PT boat, including the turrets. Several times we felt we were by-passed in action because we were a relatively small target. We also had significant firepower and must have diverted some pilots who didn't see the advantage of going after us. I really doubt that a pilot picked out a part of the boat as a target. Because of our maneuverablility, they had to be good to even hit us anyplace. Especially, in the Pacific, we operated only at night and were not visible until the last minute. As the helmsman under general quarters, I was taught to try to head directly at an approaching plane, especially if it was low flying, because a speeding plane couldn't depress their guns without crashing into the sea. I'm sure others have a different opinion, but I thought I'd put in my 2cents worth.


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CJ Willis

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of CJ Willis  Posted on: Jan 3, 2009 - 2:57pm
Our theory at night was to Zig-zag and go full throttle to the nearest rain cloud. You can't see a plane at night in the sky unless he is between you and the moon.

C. J. Willis

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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Jan 3, 2009 - 11:36pm
That's interesting, thanks Bob and C. J.. It helps dispel some of the Hollywood "choreographed gunfight at the OK corral" conditioning I have. I had thought the enemy pilots would have been able to pick out a specific target on the boat fairly easily but it doesn't sound that way.


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Jan 4, 2009 - 8:15am
I like the changes, thanks once again guys. The darker color should show up details better, good call David.




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